May 3, 2023

Episiode 211: How to Publish Like a Pro: Insights from a Self Published Bestselling Author

Episiode 211: How to Publish Like a Pro: Insights from a Self Published Bestselling Author

In this episode, we tackle the tough questions aspiring authors face when trying to break into the competitive world of book publishing. With over 60 million books on the market, how can you ensure that your work stands out? How do you build a loyal...

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In this episode, we tackle the tough questions aspiring authors face when trying to break into the competitive world of book publishing.

With over 60 million books on the market, how can you ensure that your work stands out? How do you build a loyal fan base and make a profit from your writing?

Our guest, a seasoned self-published bestselling author, shares his insights on what it takes to succeed in the publishing industry.

From developing effective marketing strategies to creating a buzz around your work, you'll learn the key ingredients to make your book a success. So, whether you're just starting out or looking to take your writing career to the next level, tune in and discover how to become a bestselling author.

Links and Resources:

Buy a copy of Lars Emmerich's best selling books on Amazon: https://amzn.to/3oY5v7r

So I've really been getting into plants a lot lately. I've been searching Facebook marketplace trying to find all of these local plants, these people that are, you know, needing to sell these plants. And I know this is gonna sound obvious to a lot of people, but I keep killing these damn things. So this is my effort to help save some plants out there.

I know that, again, this is gonna sound obvious, but what I never. Took into account was actually, you know, sticking my finger into the soil and I found out, I've been doing a lot of research on, you know, how to do things. I basically have been wa overwatering plants, right? So what you want to try to do is stick your finger into the soil about an inch or so, and if it feels dry, the plant needs more water.

Most often, uh, if, if it feels wet, then don't water it anymore. So that was a huge tip that has started me being able to keep these plants alive and have them start flourishing. So hopefully that helps some other people not slaughter their plants.

On the Invest in Square Feet podcast, we unlock the secrets of wealthy entrepreneurship. I'm Matt Shields and my mission is to help you business owners, protect and grow your wealth so that you can invest passively into multi-family real estate. If you've been an entrepreneur for any time at all, I'm sure you probably have been proposed or run across the idea of writing a book for whatever industry it is that you serve.

But the problem is, is that writing a book is extremely difficult. So today you're going to learn the best way to be able to self-publish your book, to be able to maximize your exposure and give you the best opportunity to be able to profit from your book. Today's guest is Lars Emrick, who is a thriller author, and to the best of his knowledge, he believes that he is the first author that has been able to make a career out of selling directly.

To his fans and his readers. Lars drops a few nuggets here during our interview, but he is a bestselling author for the series, the Special Agent series that revolves around Sam Jameson. You're gonna spend a lot of time writing and working on this book, so you want to give yourself the best chance for success, and Lars has figured out how to do that.

And we cover that today on Infest in square feet.

Well, at the time, it was three years after Jeff Bezos, you know, young, skinny, enthusiastic kid, uh, goes on, I think like Good Morning America or something and talks about this weird thing called the kind.

And so, uh, it was the beginning of the independent publishing revolution. And so as I was trying to figure out which direction should I go, should I go try to land an agent who will then try to land a publishing contract? I said, well, I should probably look at the publishing contract to see what that's all about.

Mm-hmm. Before I choose my life vector on the strength of one idea or another. And I read the publishing contract terms and I was like, this. Freaking stupid who signs this? The only people who sign this are probably people who don't have another option. And there was no option before. That's how the contracts got to be so terrible.

Uh, and the terms just are atrocious. And so I said, well, I, you know, it sounds strange having spent 20 years in the military, but I, I have authority issues also. So I said, ah, screw it. I'm gonna go do my own thing. And, uh, so that I never looked back. Never, never had a moment where I felt like, oh man, I really wish I had a publisher too, you know, To not do that.

Yeah. And, and did you, so I, I know that there are all kinds of, I guess, um, secrets, techniques, whatever to, you know, publishing in Amazon. Did you, did you learn all of that type of stuff right off the bat, or is this? You know, and I'm not, I'm by no means an expert in it at all. Um, but I guess I'm, I'm just curious, did you, did you know about any of that stuff when you published it, um, you know, the first time or was this just sort of a very much so trial and error, um, type situation?

It's, it's both. I did a lot of re I tend to nerd out a little bit, so I spent a lot of time, um, digging through all of that stuff. And I had, uh, I guess I had started my entrepreneurial journey officially, like in 2003, so maybe already like nine-ish years before. So I knew my way around a bit. I mean, things changed quickly, but it was, um, I wasn't starting from a dead stop, you know, I, I had, mm-hmm.

I had some momentum already and I, I had some sense for how things worked and, uh, so those pieces fit together fairly quickly for me. Um, I was able to follow some of the best practices that people had around to get a good bit of traction on, on, uh, at the time there were a number of platforms that were, that were major players, you know, uh, Apple Books.

Um, a Canadian outfit called Cobo. Obviously, Amazon and Barnes and Noble had stuff going on. They were a bunch of smaller, independent, more independent, um, privately held. Concerns were also published. And so the strategy at the time was to go wide, be every place. Um, Kendall Unlimited, I think, had kicked off or maybe was beginning, uh, was launched maybe shortly thereafter.

Um, so my strategy was to be every place books are sold, uh, to the extent possible without a distribution pipeline to be in like airports and mm-hmm. At the time there was still a bunch of bookstores. And so it's hard to get into bookstores without, um, sort of playing the old Yeah. The old school, uh, process.

Yeah. But, um, and then everything consolidated, you know, like, like frequently happens. There's only one player that really makes a difference now, and that's Amazon, of course, in the, mm-hmm. In the field. Um, but the interesting thing about that is, you know, for my fellow math nerds, that's a power law kind of game, meaning, The rewards are very, very big for a very, very, very small number of authors, and for ever, for everyone, an author who has ever in his lifetime or her lifetime, earned over a million dollars.

I'm not talking about in a year, I'm just talking about total career total. Mm-hmm. There are 1.67 million other authors who have not. Yeah. And, uh, in fact, 0.06% of authors have ever sold a thousand copies or more. Wow. Lifetime. Yeah. So it's a tall mountain and it's a very steep slope, and it's only getting taller and only getting steeper.

So it's an interesting ecosystem to dive into. 

So, so if you were starting today, Um, and you, uh, you know, obviously you've, you've done this many times over, you know, becoming, uh, you know, a bestselling author. What would be some of the tips and strategies that you would use to be able to, you know, achieve that goal?

And this kind of gets into. You know, some of the things that I think the way that you know, Amazon and the other platforms work with how you, um, you know, position yourself maybe in a, an area that, uh, or a, a field or category that might not be as popular and you kind of just make your way up through the ranks that way.

Is that, is that how it works? Or, you know, just, I guess kind of go through some of your, some of your thoughts on how to achieve that? 

Sure. That's cool. Um, well, I, I recently. Because as soon as I figured I had to sell directly to readers at a profit, and as soon as I made my, uh, first million dollars doing that, I was like, you know, lots of people are going to wanna know how to do this.

And so I, I, um, it's, it's involved and nerdy and there's a bunch of fussy technical things to do. So I have a consulting program that helps with that. And, um, but I've been doing it for a while and the game changes and I wanted to revisit some prior assumptions. Because when, when you serve customers directly, you do customer service.

Yeah. And that's hard often. And the nice thing about Amazon is they do that on your behalf. You have no idea, well, first of all, you have no idea who your customers are. Mm-hmm. So you have no idea how to find more customers really, because you, you can't differentiate a paying customer from a person off the street, you know, otherwise.

Yeah. But, So what I did over this year is I took my series, which, which is a successful series, and I stopped my direct sales advertising and I, I put everything I have learned over the last 19 ish years in digital marketing and I tried to make the Amazon thing work and I'm not starting from ground zero.

I'm starting from, you know, a, a, a good way, a good way up the mountain already. And, um, I, I was able to do that profitably, but you had to float your advertising costs for nine months before you broke even. Oh, wow. So that's tough for a lot of beginning authors. Yeah. And the other thing is that pretty much as soon as your advertising stops, so does your visibility.

So if you're paying out of pocket every day, And you're not getting paid for up to 90 days for any sales that are produced on that day. And it's a very, very slow, um, a very, very slow accumulation. It's a difficult way to get started. Mm-hmm. Contrast that with what it's like when you sell directly to your fans and customers.

You spend whatever dollars on your advertising budget today, um, in the best circumstance. You get that back and then some on the next bank. So within just a couple of days. Mm-hmm. Um, worst case, you get some of that back and then the email sequences that you send out to your customers make the, make the rest of the revenue up for you.

Another interesting thing happens when you advertise directly to readers, pointing them at your own store, and this is real, this took me by surprise, but, it's the most reliable way to also improve your Amazon royalties as. Because while it's called cross-channel effects, um, at least as I understand that definition, you're advertising for one thing, but folks will go to where they're already comfortable and type your name in mm-hmm.

And find you there and buy your stuff there, so mm-hmm. It isn't, while it's important not to put all your eggs in one basket, it's important to have some eggs in that basket. Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. Because, uh, you know, you'll, that's like. Six figures, of annual incidental income that you weren't planning on that, just is happening by virtue of this other thing that you're doing.

So, um, for my money, and I'm still a nerd, so I do a lot of testing for all my testing, that seems to be the best way to get started. 

Got it. So, so you would, you would advise essentially opening up your own store and building your own list? Yep. And you know, also at the same time, um, you know, have the Amazon store.

So like you said, you know, if people are familiar, they know Amazon, they, they have all their credit card information stored in Amazon. I'm just gonna go there and buy it, you know, you know, at least you're showing up there as well. For sure. Yeah. Interesting. And, and, um, when you're, when you're defining, you know, the store.

Um, what does that look like for you? Are you using Shopify or you, you know, WordPress? What, what is, what does that kind of platform stack look 

like for you? Yeah, that's a great question. So the, uh, the, the stack, most readers tend to be, um, elderly, like older. Mm-hmm. The platform most relevant to those folks for advertising remains Facebook.

So that's where the readers are. And so that's where the. The main advertising thrust comes from, for better and for worse, just like every other platform. Mm-hmm. Do you know? Mm-hmm. You love it and you hate it on about like a one-to-four ratio. Yeah. 1, 1, 1 part love, four parts hate. Yeah. Yeah. The thing for everything I've done on Google and other, and other places too.

And, um, that goes to a, um, a couple of ways you can do it, but the, the cleanest, smoothest way is just to go straight to a sales page. And for that you can, what we tend to use is a particular, um, landing page builder that's really good at helping you optimize the conversion rate on that page. Mm-hmm. Because margins are slim, as you can imagine in the book business.

It's really important that your message is dialed in. And the best way to do that is to, is to optimize it. So from that optimized landing page, uh, we go right to checkout and. Um, we've, we have, uh, several hundred thousand dollars through like three or four different providers of e-commerce stuff. And, um, the cleanest, well, there's no, there's no perfectly clean one.

Like, there's, they all are great for some stuff and they all suck for other stuff. And, uh, it's just a matter, of picking your poison. But for the combination of, uh, print audiobooks, so hardcovers, paperbacks, large print editions, audiobooks, and eBooks. Uh, the one I recommend is Shopify. Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm.

And just like anything else you have, you know, you have to figure out how to make all of that. It's one thing to set the structure up, but it's another thing entirely to get it to work, at a profit. And so that's where the bulk of, the work comes in. 

Yeah. And, and talk a little bit about how you, and again, I know this has been going over many, many years, but how did you create your, you know, your, your, your reader base?

Right? I mean, is it? You know, you didn't start off with, with Facebook, you know, maybe you're getting a lot of people there now and, you know, you're, you're capturing email addresses so that you can reach out to, you know, people that have shown interest or, you know, yeah. You know, bought, um, but, but I'm just curious how you went about.

You know, starting that, that, that email capture campaign or whatever it was that you used to be able to, you know, start reaching out to those, those initial readers. It's 

a great question. Back in the day, there was actually discovery on the platform, meaning just by virtue of being there, you could get some readers to find you and in the back of, in both the front matter and the back matter of those.

Um, the, all of the retailers used to just let you put links, so mm-hmm. Anything, uh, they could, you could put links to your list. You just couldn't put links to the other guy's store. That's it. So early on, it just sort of grew organically. And then the other way that you got reader eyeballs on was you would, you would give away your first book in the series.

Mm-hmm. Which is a tough move to have to make because you've, you know, years of blood, sweat, and tears in most cases to get that first one out. But it was a reality of it. So, the freebies would attract interest, you would get read through, they would purchase your subsequent novels and they would also, in many cases, sign up for yours.

Now, um, later on, that evolved to using advertising to send folks to a landing page to sign up for a free book. So you have their email before they get the free book, and then after they have signed up for the free book, the next page is you can offer them a discounted offer on say the next three or the next four.

The next five in yours. And a good portion of readers will take you up on that offer. And it was very interesting because, you know, I, I, you know, I'm a nerd and I, uh, test these things and for the first three times I tested this, uh, I found that I was 100 times more likely to sell a book to a stranger from an advertisement after first giving one away.

Hmm. Interesting. That only switched. Uh, about seven months into the covid lockdown. When I think the older audience became more comfortable with online commerce. Mm-hmm. I think that's the, I think that's the, the switch that happened. 

Yeah. It was a necessity at that point. Yeah, I think so. One interesting thing that happened when you get a bunch of folks on your list who are there for a free book is that most of the people are there on your list for free books.

Mm-hmm. And very few of them are there to purchase. And of course, maintaining a list becomes quite a, quite a business expense over time. So the way I prefer to run it now, and the way that it's more profitable to run it now is just advertisement directly to the sales page. And then when somebody makes a purchase in the checkout process for every online commerce interaction, it involves contact information, including your email address.

So now every person who shows up on my email list is a paying customer. Mm-hmm. And so that's better. 

Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Absolut. Absolutely. Yeah. No, that makes sense. Um, what, what are you, what would you say is, and again, I mean, I feel like this business, there are so many, you know, big challenges and hurdles, but are there any like, Like, holy shit, this one was really, you know, this one was difficult to be able to climb or figure out.

Are there any like things that you can, can offer shortcuts or suggestions you can offer as shortcuts? Like, don't go down this path, or don't, you know, this is a, a hill, you don't, you shouldn't, you know, you shouldn't climb. There's a better way to do it. Does anything come to mind when I say those types of things?

Yeah. Um, What comes to mind is it's all hard. Yeah. It's all hard. I, I, yeah, I, I, that's what I always feel too. Right? 

Yeah. I was doing some math recently and um, I think there's somewhere north of 60 million books mm-hmm. Available. So there's not much scarcity in the market, and it is very much a winner take all.

That's the power law distribution, the winner take all kind of, uh, kind of market. Mm-hmm. Um, the margins are low, and, uh, the price pressure is ever lower. Um, so what I think is the best advice here is that you should write if you can't write, And then after you've written, uh, the next thing, when you create something, the next thing that happens is you wanna share it.

Um, and if that feeling is strong that you want to share what you've written, uh, give it six months, come back to it, reread it, re-edit, you know, have it, send it back to an editor, and uh, you know, get something that. Professional grade, that's the bar. You know, the minimum, the minimum requirement is a professional grade and it's hard to write professional-grade stories with professional-grade sentences in it, right?

Yeah. Yeah. That's difficult to do, but that's the minimum bar. And then, uh, if you want to, if you want to get into selling your books, um, I'll talk in a second about my recommendation for nonfiction, but if you're a novel. If you want to get into selling your books, prepare to spend 50% of your work time, building your platform, building your brand, um, diving into online marketing, diving into in-person marketing, and you mean you, you really do have to approach it as a business owner.

There is no such thing as I mean for some, you know, for James Patterson and, and Lee Child and you know, a few folks who are in, who are. Superstar status, their main job is just writing great stuff and, and mm-hmm. And letting the momentum continue to build for everybody else. Um, I mean, you can view that like, you know, lots of people, you know somebody's gonna win the lottery, but you know, it's probably not you.

Yeah. Yeah. So you really have to approach it as a business. You have to find a process that you can execute daily, both for your writing and for your marketing. You have to feed and water them both daily, basically. Um, and then you have to be able to enjoy that process for years on end. So it's like the exact opposite of a get-rich-quick scheme, right?


Yeah, yeah, yeah. Absolutely. So, so you mentioned, you know, refining the book until its professional grade. If you are, if you're looking for an editor, h how do you, how do you qualify or how do you find an editor that, you know? I, I feel like there's, there's, there's. There's almost like a personal connection here too, because like, you know, you're obviously speaking in your own voice, and if you give it to an editor that has a completely different voice, then you know, that changes the story somewhat.

So how do you find an editor that speaks in your voice, but also, um, You know, provides that professional grade opinion on how you should be, you know, phrasing everything and how everything should be structured? 

It's a tough question. And, um, I've, I've viewed it like therapists, right? There's a lot, there's a lot of therapists, but it's hard to find a good one.

By the way, I think every human should find a therapist if you can, uh, find a good one. Yeah. Uh, I was lucky in that my, from the jump. Um, the editor that I, uh, that I worked with really understood the difference between voice and style and the story requirements. And so she was just terrific at very gently, very gently guiding me toward the, uh, you know, toward the story elements that really were needed.

Without squashing my style. Mm-hmm. And, um, because that's what I mean, people love the atmosphere and the vibe and the feeling. I mean, they want, of course, the story is important, but the way they feel while you're communicating the story mm-hmm. That's really what they're there for. Like, they want to feel a certain set of emotions that come with diving into the kind of world that you write.

So, um, I always say like, great stories, full of great sentences. That's the that's the ticket. Mm-hmm. The ones, that just engage folks on a lot of different levels emotionally with love, with humor, with suspense, with fear, with anger. Um, it lets folks lead a vicariously richer life than maybe the one that we're in normally.

Mm-hmm. So, It's hard, you know, to this day, I, I get done with a chapter and I'm like, well, I hope that's not shit. Or, or, and when I finish a book, I'm like, well, I hope I haven't just laid an egg. Everybody who's ever liked me, you know? Yeah, yeah, yeah. Still, struggle with that. 

Yeah, that's interesting. I mean, it's, it's, uh, you know, kind of a, I guess a, a very, very thankless, uh, process when you go through it and you don't, you don't have any idea how people are gonna receive it until, you know until you get it out there.

So, yeah. Interesting. Do you ever do any type of, um, like pre-launch or, or, uh, Uh, sampling, like people can, you know, preview your, your upcoming books to try to get a little bit of feedback so you can judge like, did I just write shit or was it, you know, is this gonna be something that is, uh, you know, gonna be well received?

Yeah. There's a fraction of just a very small fraction of your reading list that it's a good idea to approach and ask them to be beta readers. Mm-hmm. Because there are things that'll happen that'll slip through the editing process. And you know when you, when you write a book traditionally and your hand in the manuscript, you don't see it until you get it back for revisions and then you hand it in for that final time and they go, yep, we, we've got it from here.

You have no idea what's gonna come out on the other end. Yeah. However, those folks do put together a very clean, very clean manuscript. Although not perfect, like it's very, I, I always smile when I'm like reading Harry Potter to the kids and I'll find, a typo in the middle of the best-selling books since the Bible or whatever.

And, um, so nothing is perfect, but they produce a really high-quality manuscript. But when, when the buck stops with you, like you, you're making the final decision on every sentence, which means you can screw it up. And sometimes that happens. So it's great too. A, uh, a reader team that makes sure you didn't accidentally change somebody's name or location or, you know, there's coherence through the story and you haven't made any glaring errors.

And so, um, they've been quite useful over the years too, to help with those kinds of things. Um, the other thing that they do for authors is they'll often be the first folks to write a review. Ah, that's a whole like slightly slimy, dirty ecosystem reviews on Amazon, you know, um, there's a whole bunch of, a whole bunch of, uh, skullduggery around all of that that I'm happily not really a part of anymore since selling directly.

Yeah, because what happens, uh, for me is that people just comment on my ads. They'll say, oh, this is the greatest thing since Slice bread. I love you. You're the best. Or like, you're Satan Go to, hell go to hell die. Yeah, yeah, yeah. But, You get plenty of feedback anyway, um, but it helps not to be completely beholden to, uh, a whole gaggle, of Amazon reviews.

Otherwise, you know, nobody, nobody will buy your book. 

Yeah. Yeah. No, that makes sense. That makes sense. Um, well before we, before we wrap up here, I wanted to, to shift gears a little bit too, because you have, you have some other, um, causes and organizations that you're, you're very, um, you know, connected with, um, you know, through like the, the, the P T S D and, and all of that.

Talk a little bit about those programs and, um, you know, what, what it is that you have found and are doing.  

Yeah, that's, thank you. That's a great question. Um, so what happens to a human is we have fundamental questions about our worth. And, uh, am I love-lovable? Am I, am I good enough?

And I think every one of us has those questions, and we all have these events that happen in our lives that, uh, that make us believe on some fundamental level that we're lack. This is extremely common, way more common than people think. And then when you, uh, do things in the military, that's particular things in combat, um, those can stay with you and they confess you are in your mind and your psyche, they can sabotage your relationships.

Because they sabotage, your feeling of what you're able to bring to a relationship. You doubt your own you, your doubt in your own abilities and worth and value is magnified when you go through, um, intense experiences. And at the same time, there's until recently not been much cultural tolerance for getting help.

Mm-hmm. With that kind of. So you don't really realize that you have this kind of disease and, um, you also don't realize that it's treatable, um, usually until something happens in your life and it comes to a crisis point. Uh, so there's, an organization called the Headstrong Foundation, which, uh, provides mental healthcare that's stigma-free and anonymous and hassle-free.

And also cost-free, uh, care for military veterans. And I'll tell you what, the help that, uh, my family and I got from them has been absolutely life-changing. So, uh, it's one of my sort of, sort of crusades too, uh, maybe spread the word about that and help those folks do keep doing the amazing work that they're doing.

Yeah, yeah. No, I couldn't, couldn't agree more. And I, I feel like, um, you know, obviously, you know, P T S D is something that, um, You know, certainly afflicts a lot of the military personnel, but I also feel like there's, there are other, other points in life, like you kind of pointed out, you know, other, other situations in life that, you know, can grow and fester and, you know, basically put you into that same type of That's right.

You know, that same type of head space and, uh, You know, it's, it's interesting, uh, you know, I'm glad that it's getting more visibility and more, uh, acceptance to be able to, to go out and get that help. You know, when, when you did. Yeah. Right. So, well then there's an internal barrier to asking for help also, because, um, I didn't, I don't, I didn't get my leg blown off.

Mm-hmm. You know, I, I didn't, I have friends who, I've gone to a lot of funerals, uh, in the fighter business over the years, and a lot of my friends. Um, died badly, uh, but never in my arms, right? Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm. Um, I don't, they never got blood splattered all over me. And so I felt like I didn't deserve to take help that somebody else might need, you know, who's obviously been through more than I have.

And it was actually kind of an eye opener to realize that, oh, there's, there's enough help for me too. Yeah. Um, and it can really. And, uh, not just myself, but my wife and certainly my kids. The environment they grow up in, we shape as parents. So, um, it was a mindset shift for me. Arrived at that point that I would allow myself to go, you know, to go talk to somebody even though I have all my limbs.

You know what I mean? Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm. Like, that may sound silly. No. But that's sort of really how we think. 

So we learned that when you publish a book, you obviously want to be found pretty well everywhere. That much is obvious, but what most people will do is they will publish their book on Amazon and they think that that is going to miraculously, Drive people to purchase their book. What Lar suggests is that you use Amazon as an avenue, but you should absolutely be selling your books from your own platform.

He suggested using Shopify as the preferred network that he has found to be able to work very, very well for this purpose. And you also want to build a list of buyers. This is really, really important because again, what a lot of people will do is they might give away a free chapter or some type of lead magnet to be able to entice someone into giving you their name or email address.

And what ends up happening is if you generate quite a bit of traffic, you have to pay. To be able to maintain that list. As that list grows, it gets to be more and more expensive for whoever is managing your list, whether it be MailChimp or you know, any of the other plat mail platforms that might be out there.

So what Lars does is he will only offer to capture people's contact information after they've gone through and, and gone through the purchasing process. So your list is a list of buyers. That is incredibly, incredibly valuable. I, I would take, you know, a list of a hundred buyers any day to a list of 10,000 people that might be interested in your services.

You always want to be able to focus on the list of buyers. Once you have the contact information of this list of buyers, you want to be able to cultivate that relationship with people so that they are getting to know your personality. So keep in front of them and keep reaching out to them and then you can, they can help you in the future when you are looking for help.

Maybe on the next book or feedback or whatever it might be. You can utilize that relationship with some of the better people to be able to. Qualify some of your questions. And remember, it's very, very key to be found everywhere. So in the example of Amazon, certain people are not going to want to purchase from your website.

It's gonna be too much work. It's going to be too much to be able to enter all the contact information. So they may rather. Go to Amazon where they have all of their stored information already. So you want to be able to have that as an option, but you don't want to rely on it and depend on it as your only option.

And if you want to learn more about Lars or anything that he might have going on right now, just head over to lars.buzz, which is l a r s dot b u z z. And if you want to understand what the wealthy do, head over to invest in square feet.com and sign up for our newsletter. That's gonna do two things for you.

We're going to publish special outtakes from episodes that you're not going to hear anywhere else, and you're also going to have access to investment opportunities that we may have in real estate and technology offerings. We drop every Wednesday and we are available on whatever podcast platform it is that you use.